First, if you do choose to order these gloves, go 2 sizes smaller than the sizing chart. I was in between a M & L and always wear size M so I bought a M...too big. Exchanged for a S...still not snug for a liner. I tried them on a 35 degree day under my regular riding gloves and there was basically no improvement...hands still froze. I ended up sending them back. MotoSport was AWESOME to deal with trying to get me taken care of as usual!